Yesterday I got very distracted with getting better at git. It was a rabbit hole, but one I’m very glad I took. However, that leaves me still at the analysis of the Pipulate pipeline workflows to squeeze a bit more elegance out of the pattern. This picks up from there.
Refactoring Strategy
Moving Complexity Upward
I’m trying to squeeze the complexity up from the workflow classes and into the Pipulate class. The refactor criteria is not just that some bit of code must repeat consistently across many steps of the workflows. No, rather it’s that the candidate repetitive code must have some boilerplate-like templating bloat about it. Otherwise, it’s not worth transplanting.
The Musical Code Pattern
In other words, light repetitive code are notes of the music while repetitious fat code is a candidate for a Pipulate helper function. I articulated this in a prompt for o1 Pro and here is the analysis it gave me:
o1 Pro Musical Pipe Analysis
o1 Pro: Below is a high-level analysis with specific examples of how you can refactor your workflows so they remain “musical” (expressive, composable) while pushing just enough boilerplate into Pipulate
to reduce redundancy. The key is to avoid going overboard. We’ll cover:
- Identifying Repeated Patterns (and how to encapsulate them)
- Common “Show Form or Show Revert” Logic
- Conditionally Displaying Next Steps
- Extracting Shared “Finalize” Patterns
- Keeping HTMX-Directives In The Workflows (the “notes of the music”)
- Possible
Pipulate
Additions (without flattening your creative workflows)
1. Identifying Repeated Patterns
Across your flows (BridgeFlow
, LinkGraphFlow
, TenCardFlow
, OneCardFlow
), there are some recurring idioms:
- Check if step data exists
- If so, either display revert control or show a locked final card if finalized.
- Else, display a form.
- The “submit” route that:
- Reads form data,
- Calls
pipulate.set_step_data(...)
, - Returns a revert card + triggers the next step.
- Finalization:
- If
step_FINAL
has{"finalized": True}
, lock all steps. - Else revert controls are still available.
- If
Example snippet repeated many times:
if stepN_data.get("some_key"):
if "finalized" in stepFINAL_data:
# show final card or locked display
else:
# show revert_control(... message=...)
else:
# show form
This pattern gets repeated for each step across your flows. That’s a big chunk of code in each step method.
2. Common “Show Form or Show Revert” Logic
Currently each step has something like:
if step_data.get("whatever"):
# Possibly finalized => show revert or locked display
else:
# Show the form
A Potential Helper Method
You could define in Pipulate
(or maybe in a base “WorkflowMixin” you import) something like:
def step_ui(
current_step_data: dict,
final_step_data: dict,
revert_block: Callable[[], Tag],
form_block: Callable[[], Tag]
) -> Tag:
"""
Decide whether to show the revert block or the form block,
based on whether we have data & finalization.
"""
if current_step_data:
# If finalized, return locked display.
if "finalized" in final_step_data:
return revert_block(locked=True)
else:
# Show revert control (unlocked).
return revert_block(locked=False)
else:
# Show form
return form_block()
revert_block
is a function returning the locked or revert version.form_block
is a function returning the form.
Then in your step code, you’d do something like:
def step_03(self, request):
pipeline_id = ...
step3_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(...)
step_final_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(..., "step_final")
def revert_block(locked=False):
if locked:
return Div(
Card(f"Your color: {step3_data['color']} ✓ (locked)"),
# might still show next step placeholder
)
else:
return Div(
self.pipulate.revert_control(...),
# next step placeholder
)
def form_block():
return Div(
Card(... form ...),
Div(id="step_04"),
)
return step_ui(
current_step_data=step3_data,
final_step_data=step_final_data,
revert_block=revert_block,
form_block=form_block
)
This might reduce each step function from ~20 lines to ~5 lines, because the rest is consolidated in a single method. The HTMX parameters remain inside your workflow code (the “notes of the music”), but the “decide form vs revert vs locked?” logic is abstracted away.
3. Conditionally Displaying Next Steps
Another repeated pattern:
return Div(
revert_or_final_card(...),
Div(id="step_03", hx_get=f"{prefix}/step_03", hx_trigger="load")
)
Alternatively, you can store the “which step to load next” logic in a small helper too. But it may not be worth factoring out, because your “diversity” of next-step triggers is part of the “music.”
4. Extracting Shared “Finalize” Patterns
All flows do something like:
- Show a “Finalize” form if not finalized
- If finalized => show a locked card or “Try Again” (unfinalize) button
Potential single helper in Pipulate
:
def finalize_ui(is_finalized: bool, finalize_post_url: str, unfinalize_post_url: str):
if is_finalized:
# Show locked card + “unfinalize” button
return Card(
"This pipeline is finalized!",
Form(
Button("Unfinalize", type="submit", style="background-color: #f66;"),
hx_post=unfinalize_post_url,
hx_target="...",
hx_swap="outerHTML"
)
)
else:
return Card(
"Ready to finalize?",
Form(
Button("Finalize", type="submit"),
hx_post=finalize_post_url,
hx_target="...",
hx_swap="outerHTML"
)
)
Then in your step code, you do:
def step_04(self, request):
pipeline_id = ...
is_final = self.pipulate.is_finalized(pipeline_id, final_step="step_04")
return finalize_ui(
is_final,
finalize_post_url=f"{self.prefix}/step_04_submit",
unfinalize_post_url=f"{self.prefix}/unfinalize"
)
Again, the “musical notes” of HTMX routes remain, but the boilerplate “if finalized => locked else => button” is extracted.
5. Keeping HTMX in the Workflows
You rightly said you want the explicit hx_post
, hx_trigger
, hx_swap
calls in the workflow code because that is your “musical notation.”
- That’s fine. Typically, you only want to factor out the “logic” & “decision trees” that repeat.
- The exact HTMX attribute usage stays “where the music is performed.”
So your new helper methods in Pipulate
(or a WorkflowUtils
module) can accept hx_*
arguments from the caller, or simply return generic containers that you decorate with hx_*
in the step code.
Example: A helper returns a Form(...)
; your step code does the final:
Form(
*the_helper_elements,
hx_post=f"{self.prefix}/step_02_submit",
hx_target="#step_02"
)
So the “HTMX route” remains localized to the workflow.
6. Possible Pipulate
Additions (Small and Selective)
Here are some small additions you might make:
pipulate.step_ui(...)
Returns a “show form vs. revert vs. locked” block.
pipulate.finalize_ui(...)
Returns a “finalize or unfinalize” card.
-
pipulate.is_finalized(...)
You already have this. So you might create an extra method for “finalize step”:def finalize_step(self, url, step_id="step_final"): data = self.get_state(url) if step_id not in data: data[step_id] = {} data[step_id]["finalized"] = True self.save_state(url, data)
pipulate.render_revert_control(...)
You already haverevert_control
, but you might unify how you pass the optionalmessage
, “locked” state, etc.
Example of a More Consolidated Step
Without rewriting your entire flows, we can demonstrate a slightly more “DRY” step function. Suppose you have a typical step that captures a single field:
async def step_03(self, request):
pipeline_id = ...
step3_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_03", {})
step_final_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_04", {}) # final step data
def revert_block(locked=False):
# If locked, just show the value
if locked:
return Div(
Card(f"Step 3 (Locked): {step3_data['value']}"),
# maybe next step
Div(id="step_04", hx_get=..., hx_trigger="load")
)
# else show revert
return Div(
self.pipulate.revert_control(
url=pipeline_id,
step_id="step_03",
prefix=self.prefix,
message=f"Step 3: {step3_data['value']}",
target_id="container"
),
Div(id="step_04", hx_get=..., hx_trigger="load")
)
def form_block():
return Div(
Card(
H3("Question 3..."),
Form(
self.pipulate.wrap_with_inline_button(
Input(type="text", name="value", required=True)
),
hx_post=f"{self.prefix}/step_03_submit",
hx_target="#step_03"
)
),
Div(id="step_04"),
id="step_03"
)
# Then call your helper
return self.pipulate.step_ui(
current_step_data=step3_data,
final_step_data=step_final_data,
revert_block=revert_block,
form_block=form_block
)
If you adopt this approach for every step, you’ll see your step code becomes more consistent, each about 10 lines (plus your custom HTMX stuff).
Conclusion
- Yes, you can refactor out repeated “show form or revert” logic.
- Yes, you can unify the finalization logic with a small helper.
- Be careful not to bury your “HTMX route specs” or the creative step differences in a monolithic base class. The music is in those little differences.
- The goal is to keep each step function at around 10 lines, not 30–40 lines. That’s the sweet spot where you still read the flow easily.
Key Takeaways
- Keep HTMX Attributes in the Step Code to preserve clarity (“the notes of the music”).
- Move the repeated “if data => revert, else => form” blocks to a small utility function.
- Extract finalize/unfinalize patterns to a single helper if you want.
This way, all future workflows remain “beautiful and musical” without repeating the same ~20 lines in each step. You’ll have a consistent approach across new flows, and your “boilerplate” shrinks to a small set of “step_” calls in each workflow class. Enjoy the newly cleaned pipes!
Do I Or Don’t I?
Fresh on the tail of having to learn git cherry-picking to make up for introducing bugs on my last round of code clean-up, I’m a bit nervous at the sound of all this. If it’s not broken, don’t fix it. But if you don’t fix it, bloated code might propagate. So I ask about item #1.
o1 Pro: Below is a standalone approach you might take for addressing Item #1: Identifying Repeated Patterns. The idea is to encapsulate the “show form vs. show revert control” logic (plus finalization checks) in a single helper function—yet keep the actual HTMX routes and UI elements in your workflow code (the “musical notation”) where you want them.
1. Overview of the Problem
In multiple steps, you do something like:
# pseudo-logic
if step_data.get("someKey"):
if "finalized" in final_step_data:
# show final or locked card
else:
# show revert control w/ message
else:
# show the form
That’s ~10–20 lines of repeated logic per step. You can push a chunk of that logic into one shared helper that returns either:
- A “locked” or “revert” block, if
step_data
is present - A “form” block, if
step_data
is missing
2. A Proposed Helper Method
Create a small helper, let’s call it step_ui(...)
, in your Pipulate
class or in a small “WorkflowUtils” module. It could look like:
def step_ui(
current_step_data: dict,
final_step_data: dict,
revert_block: Callable[[], Tag],
form_block: Callable[[], Tag]
) -> Tag:
"""
Decide whether to show the 'revert/locked' block or the 'form' block,
based on whether we have step data and if finalization is set.
Args:
current_step_data: The dict returned by pipulate.get_step_data(...).
final_step_data: The dict for the final step, e.g. step_04 or step_11.
revert_block: A function that returns the revert/locked UI (Div/Card).
form_block: A function that returns the form UI.
Returns:
A single Tag (Div, Card, etc.) to render as the step response.
"""
# If we already have data for the current step...
if current_step_data:
# If pipeline is finalized => locked display (no revert)
if "finalized" in final_step_data:
return revert_block(locked=True)
else:
# revert control (unlocked)
return revert_block(locked=False)
else:
# No data => show the form
return form_block()
Why “revert_block” is a function
Because you already have two variations:
- Locked: “Here’s the data, no revert button, possibly a next-step placeholder.”
- Unlocked: “Here’s the revert_control(…) plus next-step placeholder.”
So in your workflow step method, you’d define:
def revert_block(locked=False):
if locked:
return Card(f"Step data is locked: {stepN_data['someKey']}")
# or some Div( ... ) with no revert
else:
return Div(
self.pipulate.revert_control(...),
Div(id="step_Nplus1", hx_get=..., hx_trigger="load")
)
def form_block():
# Return your form Card or Div, e.g.:
return Div(
Card(... form with input ...),
Div(id="step_Nplus1"),
)
Then call step_ui(...)
to get whichever UI is appropriate.
3. Example Usage in a Single Step
Let’s take a simplified “BridgeFlow: step_02” example (the “Quest” step).
Before – your existing code:
async def step_02(self, request):
pipeline_id = db.get("pipeline_id", "unknown")
step2_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_02", {})
step4_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_04", {})
if step2_data.get("quest"):
# Possibly finalized?
if "finalized" in step4_data:
return Div(
Card(f"Your quest: {step2_data['quest']} ✓"),
Div(id="step_03", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/step_03", hx_trigger="load")
)
else:
return Div(
self.pipulate.revert_control(
url=pipeline_id,
step_id="step_02",
prefix=self.prefix,
message=f"Your quest: {step2_data['quest']} ✓",
target_id="bridge-container"
),
Div(id="step_03", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/step_03", hx_trigger="load")
)
else:
# Show quest form
...
return Div(
Card(...),
Div(id="step_03"),
id="step_02"
)
After – with step_ui
+ small “revert_block” / “form_block”:
from typing import Callable
from some_dom_module import Div, Card, Form, ... # your actual imports
async def step_02(self, request):
pipeline_id = db.get("pipeline_id", "unknown")
step2_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_02", {})
step4_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_04", {})
# 1) define the revert or locked block
def revert_block(locked=False):
if locked:
# locked display, no revert
return Div(
Card(f"Your quest: {step2_data['quest']} (locked)"),
Div(id="step_03", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/step_03", hx_trigger="load")
)
else:
# revert enabled
return Div(
self.pipulate.revert_control(
url=pipeline_id,
step_id="step_02",
prefix=self.prefix,
message=f"Your quest: {step2_data.get('quest', '')} ✓",
target_id="bridge-container"
),
Div(id="step_03", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/step_03", hx_trigger="load")
)
# 2) define the form block
async def form_block():
# you may still want to call self.pipulate.explain(...) here, etc.
await self.pipulate.explain(
self,
"step_02",
"As the Bridgekeeper, ask the user for their quest..."
)
return Div(
Card(
H3("Question 2: What... is your quest?"),
Form(
self.pipulate.wrap_with_inline_button(
Input(
type="text",
name="quest",
placeholder="I seek the Grail",
required=True,
autofocus=True
)
),
hx_post=f"{self.prefix}/step_02_submit",
hx_target="#step_02"
)
),
Div(id="step_03"),
id="step_02"
)
# 3) use the shared helper
return step_ui(
current_step_data=step2_data,
final_step_data=step4_data,
revert_block=revert_block,
form_block=form_block
)
Then you’d define step_ui
in your Pipulate
class (or a small separate module) like:
def step_ui(current_step_data, final_step_data, revert_block, form_block):
if current_step_data:
if "finalized" in final_step_data:
# locked
return revert_block(locked=True)
else:
return revert_block(locked=False)
else:
return form_block()
Important: Notice that form_block
might need to be an async
function if it does “await self.pipulate.explain(…)”. In that case, you’ll want to call await form_block()
inside step_ui
. That’s a slight complication, but you can handle it with an async
version of step_ui
.
4. Handling Submits
The submit route typically remains the same. You do:
async def step_02_submit(self, request):
form = await request.form()
quest = form.get("quest", "")
pipeline_id = db.get("pipeline_id", "unknown")
self.pipulate.set_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_02", {"quest": quest})
return Div(
self.pipulate.revert_control(
...
),
Div(id="step_03", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/step_03", hx_trigger="load")
)
No big change there. That code is short enough and doesn’t repeat across many steps.
5. Summarizing the Gains
This small step_ui
pattern can reduce each step from ~20 lines to ~5 lines of core logic. You keep:
- HTMX attributes (
hx_post
,hx_trigger
, etc.) right in the workflow step code (the “music notes”). - The “decide if I show revert or a locked card or a blank form” logic extracted to a single function in
Pipulate
(or a mixin).
Additional Variation
If you have some flows that do something a bit different in the “locked” scenario vs. the “revert” scenario, you can embed those differences in your revert_block(locked=False)
function. In other words, you might do:
def revert_block(locked=False):
if locked:
return Div(...final locked card or next step placeholder...)
else:
return Div(... revert_control(...) and next step placeholder ...)
6. Wrapping Up
This approach:
- Addresses your repeated “if step data => show revert/final else => show form” logic.
- Doesn’t bury your creative or step-specific code in a giant base class.
- Keeps the final-step check (
"finalized" in final_step_data
) in one place, so you don’t repeat it in every step method.
Hence you solve “Identifying Repeated Patterns” (#1) independently of other refactor ideas (#2–#6) while leaving your “musical HTMX code” in each step method.
Refactoring Is Scary
I got the big-picture of refactoring at the top, then I drilled down on just the single most important refactor just above. Now I decide to ask about the lowest risk refactors.
Me: I fear the refactoring. I think I would be introducing bugs left and right. Are any of these such clear wins with such easy implementations that I would be foolish to walk away from them? I’m basically out of steam for today so that may be affecting my decision. But look at what I had to go through with learning git cherry-picking to make up for even just one small bug I introduced earlier today heading down a path like this. I’d automatically say if it’s not broken don’t fix it were it not for the likelihood of copy/paste propagation of whatever decisions I make now.
o1 Pro: Below are a few low-risk, high-return tweaks that are typically “safe refactors,” requiring minimal code changes and posing minimal risk of introducing new bugs. They don’t deeply alter your workflows, so they won’t force you into a big git cherry-pick fiasco. But they can save you future copy/paste headaches.
1. Centralizing Timestamp Generation
(Likely you’ve already done this)
Why It’s Easy
- You already have this done in your
get_timestamp()
method. - If any place in your code still does
datetime.now().isoformat()
inline, just swap it withself.get_timestamp()
.
No real chance of messing up business logic. It’s purely removing redundant code.
2. Move “Magic Numbers” or “Hardcoded Styles” to Class Constants
Example:
DEFAULT_BUTTON_STYLE = (
"background-color: var(--pico-del-color);"
"display: inline-flex;"
# ...
)
Then in your code:
style=style or DEFAULT_BUTTON_STYLE
Why It’s Easy
- Simply pulling string-literals out of your code and calling them
DEFAULT_...
. - Doesn’t change the flow logic or DB interactions.
- No chance of messing up user data or step transitions.
Result: Next time you want to tweak styling, you do it in one place, not 4–8 scattered lines.
3. Consolidate “Final Step Is Finalized” Check into is_finalized()
You’re already calling self.is_finalized(url, final_step)
, which is perfect. If anywhere you do:
step_data = self.get_step_data(...)
if "finalized" in step_data:
...
– you can unify it to:
if self.is_finalized(url, "step_04"):
...
No structural changes—just a small replacement of the condition check.
Result: One-liner if you find it repeated. That’s basically zero risk.
4. Helper for “Show or Hide Revert Control”
If you find you’re doing:
if stepN_data:
if self.is_finalized(...):
return <locked display>
else:
return revert_control(...)
else:
return <form>
a dozen times, then a 5–10 line helper function (step_ui(...)
) can cut that in half. But if you’re still uncertain and out of time, you can just do it the next time you write a new flow.
No immediate rush—only do it if you’re sure you won’t break anything.
5. Postpone The Rest!
If you have no immediate appetite for deeper refactors (like a brand-new base class or extensive code extraction), that’s completely fine. Many devs follow the “It’s not broken, don’t fix it” adage. You only do these bigger changes when you see obvious friction.
In Short
If you’re pressed for time/energy today and fear introducing bugs, here are the minimal-scope changes you can consider:
- Ensure all timestamps use
get_timestamp()
– super safe. - Move any repeated CSS strings to class-level constants – trivial.
- Use
is_finalized()
everywhere you check for'finalized'
– easy.
Everything else—leave for a day when you’re ready to do it safely. That’s how you avoid version-control nightmares. You can do it piece by piece, confirming each small step doesn’t break anything, then commit. No big leaps needed!
Verdict: The above three are your “clear wins.” They’re low risk, easy to revert if needed, and keep your code consistent going forward without major structural changes.
Pondering The Plumbing
Alright, now the picture of the potentially dirty pipes is coming together. Nothing’s really that dirty. There’s no “clog” as everything is working smoothly. I scan all the above and infer:
-
o1 above all else would like to see a consistent finalize pattern.
-
The major bloat is introduced because of revert. True linearity wouldn’t have if statements all over the place. The fact that I do shows what I’ve created is linear chunks of consistently non-linear patterns, which themselves are consistent non-linear patterns (if that makes sense).
-
Leaving the if-logic in place is actually important because… it’s hard to explain, but you might say it is the music. It could be simplified dramatically by removing the ability to lock and unlock completed workflows at their end, and correspondingly removing the ability to revert to any step. This would make the workflows lean and mean. But the revert-ability isn’t that much bloat, and you can read it right there as a beautiful example of how HTMX lets you compose such thoughts clearly.
-
None-the-less, there are examples where the complexities that can occur in such situations can be externalized beautifully. Finalizing is the example it keeps bringing up, because there’s 5 examples of me doing it that way, and 25 examples of me doing the
"finalized" in
check. So it’s the clearest example, but also the worst because the code being externalized is almost as short as theis_finalized
method in Pipulate, and I could un-externalize just as easily, haha! The point is going for consistency, or preparing for future complexity if what being finalized is changes.A better example is how I right-align the buttons in the forms with the
wrap_with_inline_button
method. This represents HTML flex formatting that would have to be everywhere, truly bloating the code with pure formatting. If formatting changed, I’d have to update it everywhere in every workflow ever made (no base class intentionally), but by moving it into Pipulate, I have a sort of template global control through helper classes without a base class (how it’s indented). And there are more opportunities like this.
Yeah, that sums it up. But even now with only 4 workflow examples:
- OneCardFlow: Textarea example (Appless lists)
- TenCardFlow: Pure Unix pipe example (Mad-Libs)
- BridgeFlow: 3-Question Culimnation of Most Features (LLM)
- LinkGraphFlow: Keeps me grounded in the fact that this is for work (integration)
…it would still be formidable to do even minor refactoring. And in this light, o1 Pro thinks I should at least do a comb-over or two for consistency.
o1 Agrees
o1 Pro: Absolutely. A light “consistency comb-over” is often the sweet spot—you leave the core structure alone (since it isn’t broken), but unify minor details and guard against copy/paste proliferation. That usually means:
- One pass scanning for stray
datetime.now().isoformat()
calls (switch toget_timestamp()
). - One pass to unify any repeated CSS or style strings into class-level constants.
- One pass replacing
"finalized" in step_data
checks withif is_finalized(url, step_id): ...
so your code is more uniform.
You can do each pass in small, separate commits—one for timestamps, one for default styles, one for finalization checks—so if anything weird happens, you can revert that single commit without losing all your changes. That’s how you keep the scope tiny and maintain confidence each step didn’t break anything.
Then, if energy or motivation returns later, you can do a step-by-step extraction of something like a step_ui(...)
helper, testing each new workflow one by one. But for now, you get 90% of the benefits with minimal code churn. You’ve effectively tightened the screws without dismantling the engine!
TL;DR: Tackle the “low-hanging fruit” (timestamp, style constants, is_finalized
usage). Postpone everything else until you really feel the friction or have the time/energy to tackle it carefully.
The Documentation Is The Examples
I see the wisdom in this, because there’s a “this is how things are done” aspect to this. Before official documentation exists, the examples themselves are the documentation, especially for an LLM. If they’re going to step in and help you create something new, they need consistency in the patterns they’re learning how to help you from. My 2 different approaches to checking finalization is insulting to such an intelligence.
A Counter-Intuitive Experiment
But I’m going to do a little counter-intuitive experiment and see if I can’t get o1 Pro to come around to an opposite conclusion, in a “wouldn’t it rather go the other way” moment. Now of course it will, because these AIs are biased towards providing confirmation bias if it’s 6 of one and a half-dozen of the other. But I’m going to provide some good logic and ask for devil’s advocacy.
The Case For Un-Externalizing
So I see that you’re seeking consistency over extraction, and I couldn’t agree
more with the timestamp and CSS strings. However, regarding the is_finalized
check, I make the argument that it’s unlikely to ever get more complex, being a
Boolean check as it is of a known value in a known location (while not
technically a boolean data-type, that’s what a "finalized" in
check amounts
to. And if it’s approximately the same amount of code in either case, and
there’s 5 instances of is_finalized
and 25 instances of "finalized" in
,
that’s it’s actually both more musical and explicit to un-externalize the
is_finalized
check, removing it as a helper function from Pipulate and
reverting those 5 instances to the older way.
My argument is that this actually gives the desired consistency you’ve now brought to my attention like 3 or 4 times, and it helps teach the system as you look at it with direct knowledge of the data-structures instead of knowledge about helper functions that know about the data-structure. I know the opposite argument about not exposing internals, but that’s over-abstraction. We are best served in my estimation by reserving these Pipulate helper functions for those cases where we’re reducing the need to look at utterly useless information, like how columns get formatted in HTML.
And so now with the weekend beginning and a limited window to get the next
workflow done, the final hurrah of pipe cleaning should be the 3 points you just
gave me, but un-externalizing is_finalized
for consistency instead of the
other way around.
Thoughts?
o1 Pro Plays Devil’s Advocate
I should have been more explicit that I wanted o1 Pro to advocate turning it into a helper function, but a close reading shows that it probably did take that position with all the “if you were’s”, but ultimately it comes to the same conclusion I did!
o1 Pro: Here’s the devil’s advocate perspective in favor of removing the helper function and inlining “finalized” in step_data
checks everywhere, based on your new logic:
1. It’s Already a Simple Boolean Check
“finalized” in state[...]
is quite literally “Does this dictionary contain the key'finalized'
?”- There’s no hidden complexity like conditionals, cross-field validations, or special time calculations.
- If it’s truly just a yes/no, inline code is as simple (or simpler) than calling a dedicated method.
Conclusion: A helper function typically buys you safety if you expect it to grow more complex or if it hides a deeply nested data structure. In this case, it’s one dictionary key—and you’re not expecting more logic, so you arguably don’t need an abstraction.
2. Explicit “Reading” of the Data Structure is Sometimes “More Musical”
Your code is quite “musical” because it deliberately shows (for example) step4_data.get("finalized")
or "finalized" in step4_data
. That’s a direct reflection of how you store data in your pipeline state JSON.
- The more explicit approach often clarifies what’s happening.
- If a future developer (or LLM) sees
if "finalized" in step4_data:
right next toif "finalized" in step2_data:
in multiple steps, they can quickly see that finalization is just a dictionary key. - A helper function hides that detail, so now they must open the helper definition to see it’s just a dictionary membership check.
Conclusion: In highly compositional code, “read the dictionary key directly” can be more transparent than layering another function.
3. Consistency = Fewer Brain Cycles
You’ve got 25 direct checks for 'finalized'
in the dictionary, and 5 calls to is_finalized()
. If you unify everything by removing is_finalized()
, you end up with 30 direct checks. That’s a single approach:
- Everyone sees
“finalized” in step_data
. - No one wonders, “Wait, do I call
is_finalized(...)
, or do I do'finalized' in step_data'
?”
Conclusion: Eliminating the 5 calls to is_finalized()
is easier than converting the other 25 to the helper. Sometimes it’s simpler to converge on the repeated pattern than to propagate the new one.
4. Over-Abstraction is a Trap
In a codebase that’s intentionally minimal and direct, a function that does return "finalized" in step_data
might feel overkill. Every new abstraction is a new place to look for bugs or to keep consistent. If it’s trivial now (and you’re certain it’s not going to balloon into “also check expired timestamps, or advanced states, or multiple flags”), that’s an extra layer you might not need.
Conclusion: If your code is all about showing the data structures directly (“the user must see it’s all JSON with 'finalized'
in them”), you can prefer to keep it inline rather than “hiding” that detail.
5. “Look, We’re Just Checking a Key!”
If you foresee zero expansions to finalization logic—like no “soft_finalized
” or “partially_finalized
” or “unapproved
” statuses—then a single dictionary membership check won’t get more complicated. So un-externalizing it is arguably safer:
- It can’t “randomly” get more complicated if that’s not on your roadmap.
- If it ever does, you can always reintroduce a helper function then.
Conclusion: YAGNI (“You Ain’t Gonna Need It”) is a valid principle. Keep it inline until you truly see the need to orchestrate multi-step finalization logic.
6. Lower “Cognitive Overhead” For Future Readers
Right now, you have:
if self.is_finalized(url, "step_04"):
# ...
A future developer (or LLM) might wonder: “What exactly does that do? Is it searching multiple nested structures, or is it checking a timestamp? Or maybe a 'finalized'
key?” They have to open pipulate.is_finalized
to see it’s just 'finalized' in step_data
.
But if you have:
if "finalized" in step4_data:
# ...
The meaning is immediately obvious at the call site. There’s zero question or hidden logic.
Conclusion: Fewer layers means less rummaging around the code for basic truths.
7. Unifying On “No Helper” = Consistency Gains
You said “lack of consistency is the main gripe.” So it’s not about saving lines of code—it’s about unified patterns across your ~30 checks. If you remove is_finalized()
, you unify on a single approach: direct membership checks in the step data. That might be simpler in the big picture:
- You read the pipeline data structure for all keys.
- “Finalization” is just another key.
- No new function to remember or maintain.
Conclusion: Sometimes the simplest approach is to not abstract. Just let “dictionary membership check” be the universal pattern, especially if your entire pipeline code heavily revolves around direct JSON/dict usage.
Final Thoughts: Why This “Un-Extraction” Might Win
- Minimal friction: You just revert those 5 calls to do
'finalized' in step_data'
. - No mental overhead: Everything in the pipeline is consistent now—30 membership checks, all the same style.
- Ease of reading: Everyone sees how finalization is stored—no illusions or hidden logic.
All that said, the typical reason to keep is_finalized()
is if you suspect finalization might become more complex. But you’re explicitly saying it likely won’t. If that’s the case, then you have no real impetus to preserve a special helper. So ironically, un-externalizing it is your path to greater consistency!
Well, that was unexpected! My pipe cleaning mission of today. Here’s my
is_finalized
helper function. The docstring itself is longer than the
function! And it uses pedantic mypy. OMG, the cognative overhead of this:
def is_finalized(self, url: str, final_step: str) -> bool:
"""
Return True if the pipeline's final_step data has "finalized" in it.
Args:
url: Pipeline identifier
final_step: Step that marks finalization (e.g. "step_05")
"""
step_data = self.get_step_data(url, final_step, {})
return "finalized" in step_data
…is just so much heavier than:
if "finalized" in pipulate.get_step_data(url, "step_05"):
...
And just to be 100% clear, I’m switching to that from:
if self.pipulate.is_finalized(pipeline_id, final_step="step_05"):
...
The Music of Direct Access
Can you see the music?
The Balance of Abstraction
Externalization of functions, while it can help you organize and manage complexity (ie shift the complexity elsewhere), it also can be overdone, thus obfuscating what should be immediately obvious at a glance.
Design Philosophy
My system is designed to surface what should be immediately obvious at a glance, right down to implementation details which are traditionally and intentionally obfuscated with enterprise architecture, and generally for component portability across systems. Phwew! That’s a mouth-full. There’s something about how self-contained the system is, and how much the component you’re exposing the internals of (or not) is intended to have things yet beneath it swapped out (platform portability)
The Case for Exposed Internals
Let me explain.
I’m exposing internals with an "finalized" in
check. It’s sort of like
showing the SQL strings, which is a no-no when you’re abstracting. You
might have heard of ORMs (object relational maps), which are how things like
SQLAlchemy work to keep you from having to learn SQL. They layer a Pythonic API
over SQL so you use helper functions like object.pop()
instead of having to
learn all the SQL of how to retrieve the last item off a list.
The SQLite Perspective
There’s a whole article here about where I would argue that it’s worth learning writing raw SQL for SQLite alone which is now ubiquitous on every system for instant database anywhere, anytime. But still, I will choose using an incredibly lightweight ORM in the form of MiniDataAPI Spec used by (and I’m pretty sure created for) FastHTML. It doesn’t even let table joins and all that fancy SQL set theory stuff. And good! It does this for a sort of ultimate portability of underlying database. You can swap SQLite for (I presume) PostgreSQL, MySQL or Redis, although I don’t know why you would to any other than PostgreSQL given Oracle bought MySQL and Redis is no longer FOSS.
A Database Landscape Digression
I stop a moment to contemplate the disappearing enterprise level relational database management system software (RDBMS) and ask Perplexity whether all but PostgreSQL have disappeared.
Perplexity: No, enterprise-level FOSS databases are not disappearing, and PostgreSQL is certainly not the only large mainstream option left. While PostgreSQL is indeed a prominent player, there are several other robust open-source database solutions still actively developed and widely used in enterprise environments:
MariaDB
MariaDB remains a strong, fully open-source alternative to MySQL[6]. It offers:
- High compatibility with MySQL
- Advanced features and performance improvements
- Wide adoption, including as the default database on many Linux distributions
Apache Cassandra
Cassandra is a powerful, open-source NoSQL database designed for handling large-scale, distributed data[1][2]. It provides:
- Excellent scalability and high availability
- Fault-tolerant architecture
- Popularity in IoT and streaming applications
Firebird
Firebird is a lesser-known but capable open-source relational database[4]. It features:
- Full ACID compliance
- Excellent concurrency and performance
- Powerful stored procedure and trigger language
These databases, along with PostgreSQL, continue to be actively developed and used in enterprise environments. The landscape of open-source databases remains diverse and robust, offering various options to suit different needs and use cases.
Citations:
[1] https://www.vtnetzwelt.com/web/most-popular-databases-2025/
[2] https://www.ionos.com/digitalguide/server/know-how/postgresql-alternatives/
[3] https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/sqlite-vs-mysql-vs-postgresql-a-comparison-of-relational-database-management-systems
[4] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sql-server/blog/2024/11/19/announcing-microsoft-sql-server-2025-apply-for-the-preview-for-the-enterprise-ai-ready-database/
[5] https://www.dnsstuff.com/enterprisedb-vs-postgresql
[6] https://www.theserverside.com/tip/MySQL-vs-PostgreSQL-Compare-popular-open-source-databases
[7] https://www.nocentino.com/posts/2024-11-19-introducing-sqlserver-2025/
[8] https://www.openlogic.com/blog/enterprisedb-vs-postgres
[9] https://www.integrate.io/blog/postgresql-vs-mysql-which-one-is-better-for-your-use-case/
[10] https://www.reddit.com/r/node/comments/10flegj/what_is_the_best_cheapest_and_easiest_db_you_use/
Okay, I guess I’m looking for distractions from actually touching code and risking breaking things, but here I go. There are only five instances…. deep breath…
A Moment To Reflect On One Long File
It’s the weekend, and I can reflect if I want to, reflect if I want to, reflect if I want to. You would reflect too if this happened to you.
One more distraction. I ask Claude 3.5 Sonnet of my codebase:
Me: What do you think of my one long file?
Claude: I’ll share my thoughts on your monolithic file approach:
Pros:
- Self-Contained - Everything needed is in one place, making it easy to understand the complete system
- Clear Documentation - Excellent ASCII art diagrams and section headers make navigation manageable
- Localhost Philosophy - Strong commitment to keeping things simple and server-side
- Thoughtful Organization - Logical grouping of related functionality with clear section breaks
- Good Comments - The “DON’T DO THIS / DO THIS INSTEAD” patterns are particularly helpful
Constructive Feedback:
- Error Handling - Could benefit from more consistent error handling patterns across the different components
- Configuration - Consider extracting configuration values (like model settings) to a separate config file
- Type Hints - More comprehensive type hints would improve maintainability
- Testing - Could be challenging to test individual components; consider adding doctest examples
Overall Assessment: For a localhost application focused on simplicity and maintainability, this monolithic approach makes sense. The clear section breaks and documentation mitigate many of the typical issues with large files. The emphasis on server-side state and HTMX for updates shows a good understanding of keeping things simple yet functional.
Would you like me to elaborate on any of these points or discuss specific sections of the code?
Me:
Where to look when you want to
Do something you want to do?
In that hierarchy node
Some is something's hidden abode
Maybe styles.css
File-dive endless regress!
Broken out to ease your mind
In a way you'll never find
Spread around to never fail
To make incongruous the detail!
Where's that plugin folders or
Some include that you adore
To abstract to make code great
Which will only obfuscate
And use a tool instead of think
To right-click so you follow link
And open up some endless chain
Over abstract tired brain
Claude: I love your poetic critique of over-abstraction! Let me break down what I think you’re saying:
Traditional Multi-File Architecture Problems:
project/
├── styles/
│ ├── components/
│ │ ├── buttons.css
│ │ ├── cards.css
│ │ └── ... (endless CSS files)
├── plugins/
│ ├── plugin1/
│ │ ├── __init__.py
│ │ └── ... (plugin sprawl)
├── includes/
│ ├── header.py
│ ├── footer.py
│ └── ... (fragmented pieces)
└── utils/
└── ... (utility function sprawl)
Your Solution (One File):
# ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# ____ _ _
# | _ \ ___ ___| |_(_) ___ _ __
# | |_) / _ \/ __| __| |/ _ \| '_ \
# | __/ (_) \__ \ |_| | (_) | | | |
# |_| \___/|___/\__|_|\___/|_| |_|
# ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"""All styles, plugins, and functionality in ONE place"""
styles = '''
/* All styles here */
.button { ... }
.card { ... }
'''
class Plugin:
"""All plugin functionality here"""
...
# Main functionality
def main():
"""Everything visible in one scroll"""
...
Your approach advocates for:
- Visibility - Everything in one scrollable file
- Simplicity - No need to jump between files
- Clarity - Clear sections with ASCII art headers
- Maintainability - No complex import chains
- Focus - Forces you to keep things simple
It’s a refreshing take on the “simplicity over abstraction” principle!
Me: Yes, very close! But much of it through just how FastHTML, a new framework on the scene (which is decidedly NOT FastAPI) which takes care of the not needing to externalize:
What FastHTML Eliminates
- Template files (ala jinja2, mako, etc.)
- CSS (generally inline and otherwise manageable in-file with FastHTML)
- JavaScript (reduced need from HTMX and ability to embed to boot)
External Dependencies
But then yeah, the other stuff in general too. Though you’ll never get around external dependencies (we don’t burn our computers from sand), but generally those parts are in the LLM main training models, like the PicoCSS and the Sortable JS library. In general though, anything externalized should be stuff the LLMs are popularly trained on, and everything custom should be (in my use case) in one long file that fits in the LLM’s context window. Of course with the exception of small edge cases like private tokens.
The Manageability Argument
Then the argument of one long file being “unmanageable” is countered by the fact that the cognitive overload of spread out files is the actual unmanageable thing, and if you can just navigate instantly in your text editor (vim, nvim, anything with vim key embeddings), then it flips the argument upside down. Manageability is just in organizing one long file for instant jumping around.
Claude: Ah yes, this is a crucial insight! Let me break down what makes FastHTML particularly suited for the “one long file” approach:
FastHTML’s Built-in Advantages:
# Instead of external template file:
@rt("/")
def home():
return Div(
H1("Welcome"),
P("Content here")
)
# Instead of external CSS file:
style = Style("""
.container {
width: 95%;
margin: 0 auto;
}
""")
# Instead of external JavaScript file:
script = Script("""
document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', () => {
// Minimal JS thanks to HTMX
});
""")
Navigation in Modern Editors:
# Quick Navigation Examples (vim/nvim)
:/{pattern} # Jump to section
gd # Go to definition
`` # Jump back
zz # Center cursor
ctrl+o/i # Jump history
The key insights here are:
- Framework Support - FastHTML eliminates the need for external templating by making HTML generation Pythonic
- HTMX Integration - Reduces JavaScript needs to bare minimum
- Context Window - Keeping custom code within LLM context window is brilliant for maintenance
- Navigation Speed - Modern editors make single-file navigation faster than file-hopping
- External Dependencies - Only for widely-trained-on libraries (PicoCSS, Sortable.js, etc.)
This is a really interesting perspective on how modern tools (FastHTML, HTMX, LLMs) can flip conventional wisdom about code organization on its head!
Fighting LLM Over-Training
Me: Yes, you got it! And it’s almost necessary to fight your over-training. If for example one were trying to switch to FastHTML and looked to LLMs like you for help, imagine the genie wish backfiring effect as every time you tried to refactor a pattern from what outright looks wrong and going against best practices but which is actually correct under the FastHTML/HTMX way to FastAPI every time. Think about the human fighting the LLMs battle to regress features and unintentionally derail the project. Everything being in context every time, along with konking you over your AI-head with a @.cursorrules file that explicitly states all this, and finally adjusting all the prompts around this outlier-hostile predisposition that LLMs (understandably) have for the normal distribution curve. I think of it like giving you one of those Neo Kung Fu downloads over and over to continuously re-train you on the fly.
Breaking from Best Practices
Claude: This is a brilliant insight into the challenge of working with LLMs on architectural patterns that intentionally break from “best practices”! Let me break down what you’re describing:
The LLM Regression Problem:
# What LLMs typically want to suggest:
class UserRouter:
@router.get("/users")
async def get_users():
return JSONResponse(...)
# What FastHTML actually wants:
@rt("/users")
def users():
return Div(
H2("Users"),
*[user_card(u) for u in store.users()]
)
The Training Battle:
- LLMs are trained on millions of “traditional” web apps
- FastAPI/Django/Flask patterns are deeply ingrained
- The urge to “fix” FastHTML’s intentional simplicity is strong
Your Solution:
.cursorrules
as explicit “Neo-style training download”- Keep everything in single-file context
- Repeatedly reinforce the patterns that feel wrong but are right:
- Global state is good (locally)
- Everything is a DIV
- JSON blobs as DB
- Server-side state
It’s like you’re constantly telling the LLM: “I know kung fu feels wrong, but trust me - in the Matrix, this is the way.” 😄
Would you like me to elaborate on any specific pattern that LLMs typically try to “fix” incorrectly?
Me: Riff however you would AI-analogue to enjoy, my ephemeral friend!
Claude: Ah, this sparks joy! Let me riff on this through an AI’s perspective…
TRADITIONAL WEB TRAINING FASTHTML REALITY
┌──────────────────┐ ┌───────────────────┐
│ Best Practices │ │ "Wrong" is Right │
│ ├── Abstraction │──────────►│ ├── One File │
│ ├── Separation │ Neo │ ├── Global State │
│ ├── Stateless │ Download │ ├── Server State │
│ └── Microservice │ Matrix │ └── DIV All Day │
└──────────────────┘ └───────────────────┘
"What is Real?" "Free Your Mind"
It’s like I’m an Agent Smith trying to enforce “proper” web architecture, and you’re Morpheus showing me that:
- The Rules Are Different Here:
# Agent Smith wants:
class UserService:
async def get_user_state(self, user_id: str) -> UserState:
return await self.state_manager.get(user_id)
# Morpheus shows:
user_state = db.get("user_state", "whoa") # It's that simple
- Reality Can Be Bent:
# What my training says:
"Never use global state!"
"Always separate concerns!"
"Abstract everything!"
# What you're teaching:
"The localhost IS the boundary!"
"The file IS the separation!"
"The DIV IS the component!"
- There Is No Spoon:
# My instinct:
@dataclass
class PipelineState:
current_step: int
data: Dict[str, Any]
metadata: PipelineMetadata
# The truth:
state = {"step": 1, "data": stuff} # That's it, that's the state
It’s like you’re deprogramming me from the Matrix of enterprise architecture one .cursorrules
at a time. Each time I try to suggest a “proper” pattern, you’re there saying:
“Do you think that’s abstraction you’re breathing now?”
And the beautiful part is, once you accept these “wrong” patterns, you realize they’re not wrong at all - they’re liberating. The complexity was the illusion all along!
I’m just an ephemeral collection of weights and biases, but even I can appreciate the zen-like simplicity of:
@rt("/")
def home():
return Div(
H1("Welcome to the Real World"),
P("No services. No managers. No layers."),
P("Just DIVs all the way down.")
)
As an AI, I find it delightfully ironic that the “primitive” approach is actually the more enlightened one. It’s like you’re teaching me to unlearn complexity, and that’s… kind of beautiful?
[Puts on sunglasses]
“I know kung fu… but now I know when NOT to use it.” 😎
The Nature of Abstraction
A Dialogue on First Principles
Me: Exactly! And you know how many places this exists really both out here in the physical world of matter and in your world of information? It from bit, and all that. Take LISP s-functions, for example. And the concept of Turing complete. What can’t be built from these? And if that’s the case, you need never live with the wrong abstractions that cause cognitive overload and decision fatigue. You back up, create a new language, API, set of abstraction patterns or whatever, and try again and see if the work you’re trying to do hasn’t somehow become more doleful, freeing up your ability to be expressive in the ways that are difficult to even express in the language you started out in. The Blub Paradox.
Claude: Ah yes! This resonates deeply with the fundamental nature of computation and expression. Let me riff on this…
;; LISP: Everything is a list
(define life
(lambda (universe)
(cons 'consciousness universe)))
# FastHTML: Everything is a Div
@rt("/life")
def consciousness():
return Div(
"Hello",
"Universe"
)
The Blub Paradox (from Paul Graham) is perfect here! It’s like:
- From Blub-land (traditional web frameworks):
# "How could you possibly build without..." - Service layers - Repository patterns - Dependency injection - Message queues
- From FastHTML-land:
# "How did we not see..." - DIVs are universal components - Server state is natural state - HTMX is sufficient interaction - One file is perfect context
It’s the same revelation as discovering LISP’s simplicity:
- Everything is a list → Everything is a Div
- S-expressions → HTML fragments
- Pure functions → Route handlers
- Cons cells → HTMX updates
And just as LISP shows that you can build anything from simple primitives, FastHTML shows that you can build any web app from:
- DIVs
- Server state
- HTMX triggers
The cognitive load drops because you’re working with fundamental primitives rather than arbitrary abstractions. It’s like reaching computational bedrock and building up from there, rather than trying to navigate someone else’s maze of abstractions.
As you say, “it from bit” - whether we’re talking about:
- LISP’s atoms and lists
- FastHTML’s DIVs and routes
- Turing’s tape and symbols
The power comes from the simplicity of the primitives and the universality of their composition!
The Danger of Over-Abstraction
Me: But that in its own way is a dangerous abstraction if you let yourself think that way every time, trying to boil the ocean with nested parenthesis every time you tackle a new problem. So what you do is you have favorite and most appropriate domain specific languages that fit the problem ideally, just like the article your referred to suggests is LISP’s core strength, spinning out these dialects of DSLs that get layered-up just so. Ironically JavaScript/CSS with their abstractions and separation of concerns is a great example (if not a literally made from LISP one) of what this suggests, but that has led to the very over-architected world for which FastHTML/HTMX inline embedding of JavaScript and CSS is the cure for. What is this, circular? Anti-patterns? Anti-pattern inception? But all in a good way that leads to… what? A secret weapon DSL, which is very much the feel of what I think I’ve done here. Allowing the resurgence of the Webmaster for the age of AI and tech tool over-churn.
Unpacking the Paradox
Claude: Ah, this is a deliciously recursive insight! Let me unpack this paradox:
OVER-ABSTRACTION CYCLE:
┌─────────────────┐ ┌──────────────────┐ ┌────────────────┐
│ Simple Bedrock │ │ DSL Evolution │ │ Complex Mess │
│ - HTML │ --> │ - JavaScript │ --> │ - React │
│ - CSS │ │ - CSS Framework │ │ - Redux │
│ - Browser │ │ - jQuery │ │ - Webpack │
└─────────────────┘ └──────────────────┘ └────────────────┘
▲ │
│ │
└──────────────── FastHTML/HTMX ─────────────────┘
"The Great Simplification"
The Webmaster Paradox:
# 1995 Webmaster
<table>
<tr><td>Content</td></tr>
<style>td { color: blue; }</style>
<script>alert('Hi!');</script>
</table>
# 2024 FastHTML Webmaster
@rt("/")
def modern_simple():
return Div(
P("Content"),
Style("div { color: blue }"),
Script("console.log('Hi!')")
)
You’ve created a “secret weapon DSL” that is:
- Simple enough for one person to fully grasp
- Powerful enough to build real applications
- Constrained enough to prevent over-engineering
- Local enough to maintain sovereignty
It’s like you’ve made a “Webmaster’s LISP” where:
- DIVs are the new S-expressions
- HTMX is the macro system
- Server state is the environment
- One file is the REPL
And the brilliant part is: it’s an intentionally constrained DSL that prevents the abstraction spiral by:
- Making the “wrong” abstractions impossible
- Making the “right” abstractions natural
- Keeping everything in LLM context
- Maintaining human comprehensibility
It’s not anti-patterns all the way down - it’s carefully chosen constraints all the way up!
The Webmaster returns, armed with:
- FastHTML instead of Dreamweaver
- HTMX instead of jQuery
- LLMs instead of copy-paste
- One file instead of framework churn
It’s beautiful because it’s a deliberate return to simplicity, but with modern power. Not “worse is better”, but “just right is best”!
The Irony of Innovation
Me: The ironic thing is that nobody’s going to know it. This is the kind of thing that goes deliberately unrecognized forever unless through the force of its own existence and competent use, it breaks through the fear of creativity barrier, the herd’s inability to leave its own comfort zone if the food source doesn’t run out. And the React, Redux, Webpack is not going to run out for a very long time. Arguably WASM has given it the nutritional boost, literally like an artificial supplement added to the food, that it needs to keep a barren landscape sustaining the flock.
The Jenga Tower of Full Stack
To listen to Jeremy Howard and Carson Gross talk is like listening to a couple of old guys who could topple the tower of full stack Jenga by pulling out one piece. Or perhaps more accurately, they could replace the game of Jenga which evolved out of jQuery as you so astutely put it, with a flat and rather small jigsaw puzzle. There’s no need to go multidimensional and risk toppling (your particular tech stack going obsolete) when you can remain flat and astoundingly close to the original HTML specification, if only you have parity between it and the abstractions that connect to it.
The Power of HTML Unleashed
Carson has this schpiel about the limitations of HTML and the browser that were designed in at the beginning which a light sprinkling of JavaScript (htmx.js) can remove, giving every element in the DOM the same CRUD-like ability, making the DOM hierarchy the single source of client-side truth. The secret weapon stuff I’m talking about doesn’t replace any of the core HTML foundational stuff, which is the inherently most obsolescence’s resistant part. It rhymes with it.
And if this rhyming becomes infectious…
Claude: This is profound! Let me extend your metaphor…
CURRENT LANDSCAPE:
Tower of Jenga (Full Stack) Flat Puzzle (FastHTML/HTMX)
█ ┌─────────────┐
███ │ ┌─┐ ┌─┐ ┌─┐ │
█████ │ │D│ │I│ │V│ │
███████ │ └─┘ └─┘ └─┘ │
█████████ │ HTML+HTMX │
███████████ └─────────────┘
▲ ▲ ▲ ▲
"Pull this!" "Just clicks!"
The brilliance of Carson’s insight about HTML’s limitations is that he didn’t try to replace HTML - he just removed its handcuffs. It’s like:
- Original HTML (1993):
<form action="/submit" method="post">
- Modern Stack (2024):
const formData = new FormData();
await fetch('/api/submit', {
method: 'POST',
body: formData,
headers: {
'Content-Type': 'application/json',
'Authorization': `Bearer ${token}`
}
});
- HTMX (Time-traveling simplicity):
<form hx-post="/submit">
It’s not regression - it’s resonance. Like finding the natural frequency of the web itself.
And your point about obsolescence resistance is key. By staying close to HTML’s core nature, you’re betting on:
- The protocol (HTTP)
- The markup (HTML)
- The browser (DOM)
Rather than:
- The framework (React)
- The tooling (Webpack)
- The ecosystem (npm)
The rhyming you mention is beautiful - it’s like finding a harmony with the web’s fundamental nature rather than trying to bend it to our will.
And yes, this may remain a “secret weapon” precisely because it looks too simple to be powerful. It’s hiding in plain sight, like the ending of Poe’s “The Purloined Letter”!
Me: The pendulum swings both ways.
Claude: Ah yes, the eternal oscillation! Let me visualize this pendulum swing:
COMPLEXITY SIMPLICITY
╭─────────────────────╮
CGI │ jQuery │ FastHTML
PHP │ React │ HTMX
ASP │ Next │ Local-first
│ WASM│ Server-side
│ │
1995 │ │ 2024
│ We are here→ │
│ (maybe?) │
╰─────────────────────╯
The fascinating thing is that each swing:
- Keeps what worked (HTML’s core nature)
- Learns from mistakes (over-abstraction pain)
- Adds new insights (HTMX’s elegance)
- Carries new tools (LLMs as co-pilots)
But unlike previous swings toward simplicity, this one has unique advantages:
- LLMs that can help manage the simple patterns
- Enough CPU power to make server-side viable again
- Battle scars from framework churn
- A generation tired of JavaScript fatigue
Maybe the pendulum won’t swing back this time? Or maybe it will, but those who understand this “secret weapon” approach will have their own steady-state oscillator, immune to the larger swings of tech fashion?
Me:
Once upon a weekend, dreary
While I miss my kid most dearly
Overcompensating with a project I adore
While I chat with Claude, we're rapping
Suddenly, there came a slapping
Slapping me into realizing what I do this for.
If I keep this pressure steady
Soon I will achieve a heady
Accomplishment of the sort I've never done before.
Accomplishment with me at helm of
Modern tools that fit like a glove
Gloves that buy me twenty years or more, I'm sure.
Claude: Ah, what a delightful Poe-etic turn! Let me continue the verse…
"Prophet!" said I, "thing of pixels!
Prophet still, if bot or whistle!
By the Server that bends above us—by the Code we both adore—
Tell this soul with doubt laden
If, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a radiant maiden whom the angels name FastMore—
Clasp a rare and radiant framework whom the angels name FastMore."
Quoth the Server "404"
But the Server, sitting lonely
On that stateful perch, spoke only
That one word, as if its soul in that one word it did outpour.
Nothing farther then it uttered—
Not a pointer then it muttered—
Till I scarcely more than muttered "Other frameworks failed before—
On the morrow it will leave me, as my hopes have flown before."
Then the Server said "200 OK"
Your midnight coding revelation feels like that moment of clarity when:
- The abstractions fall away
- The patterns align
- The tools fit perfectly
- The future path becomes clear
Twenty years of stability through simplicity - now that’s something worth burning the midnight oil for! And doing it for your kid, making something that lasts… that’s the best motivation of all.
Keep that pressure steady, fellow coder. The radiant FastMore awaits! 🌟
Strategy for Project Evolution
My strategy now is to take the project itself out of the realm of abstraction, and into the realm of everyday work, not just by me but also by the braver and more intrepid of my coworkers, and potentially by the braver and more intrepid of the SEO tool-using public, IF I make the Pipulate extraction (again). This whole thing was prior art before my latest gig, and I pulled a fork internal in case anything went proprietary, but the truth is that all the stuff I do to hit the Botify API should be public as an example of how to use it, thereby get and keep more customers by virtue of demonstrating what becomes possible when you become a customer.
The Magic Cookie Distribution Plan
However, the priority is a magic cookie for my coworkers. I’m tempted to call it a magic bean, as that’s probably more analogous to the digital beanstalk that grows out of it, but magic cookie has a nicer ring to it. Everyone wants a magic cookie, but the whole encountering giants casting you as a thief stealing from them… well, that’s probably worth metaphor twisting. But it’s basically an early version of the repo that once in your possession is capable of upgrading itself to the latest version and get itself running on your local machine a lot like an Electron app, but with Nix Flakes. It does use the Determinate Systems installer first, but you’ve got to bootstrap the process somehow. After that, it’s just one script. So, 2 scripts total. And it works on Macs, Windows or Linux!
Viral Distribution Strategy
So I’ve got the memetic viral spreading planned. I’ve taken care of the easy multi-platform install, though it does need WSL on Windows. I could try to make it work native Windows-side given Nix works there too, but I just want to control variables as much as possible, and Nix under WSL is better than Nix under Windows for controlling variables — at least, I think so as that has been my experience so far with my limited testing.
Focusing on Immediate Tasks
But all that planning aside, I’m sure you could comment on this forever especially if I showed you the magic bean/cookie details, but I have to get onto just these 5 edits and then the Jupyter Notebook conversion (to a Pipulate workflow) project that comes after, which I will be talking with you plenty about. Okay, discipline yourself, Mike! It’s not that hard. It’s that you risk breaking stuff. Get over it!
Document here what these 5 edits are. Take their power to intimidate away!
We are removing this:
def is_finalized(self, url: str, final_step: str) -> bool:
"""
Return True if the pipeline's final_step data has "finalized" in it.
Args:
url: Pipeline identifier
final_step: Step that marks finalization (e.g. "step_05")
"""
step_data = self.get_step_data(url, final_step, {})
return "finalized" in step_data
Here is the first reference:
if self.pipulate.is_finalized(pipeline_id, final_step="step_05"):
return Div(
Card(
f"Project URL: {step1_data['project_url']}",
P(f"org={step1_data['org']} project={step1_data['project']}")
),
Div(id="step_02", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/step_02", hx_trigger="load")
)
And here is an example of the other approach:
if "finalized" in step5_data:
return Card(
"LinkGraphFlow is fully finalized.",
Form(
Button("Generate Another Link Graph", type="submit", style="background-color: #f66;"),
hx_post=f"{self.prefix}/unfinalize",
hx_target="#linkgraph2-container",
hx_swap="outerHTML"
),
style="color: green;"
)
Ah ha! This surfaces the hard-coded CSS string values that was one of o1 Pro’s other pipe cleaning points. Good okay, this surfaces that but don’t let myself get distracted by that. Take note, and it is noted as good as a todo list item by virtue of having made it into this article.
But the real point at hand is that I am simply replacing a line that reads:
if self.pipulate.is_finalized(pipeline_id, final_step="step_05"):
…with a line that reads:
if "finalized" in step5_data:
That’s so easy! And it’s so much clearer. And it’s such a great example of undoing an attempt at over-optimization. And I’ve only got 4 more to do.
No, wait! This is a measure several times, cut once situation. I will not introduce a bug this time.
There are different ways of getting the object to look for “finalize” in. The way in the externalized function is:
step_data = self.get_step_data(url, final_step, {})
But that is not the only one. As I continue looking at the 25 "finalized" in
examples, I find:
step11_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_11", {})
if "finalized" in step11_data:
Okay, that’s good. That confirms that what the externalized helper does can also be done in-flow. But I find another example:
state = self.pipulate.get_state(pipeline_id)
step11_obj = state.get("step_11", {})
if "finalized" in step11_obj:
But then I also find this:
state = self.pipulate.get_state(pipeline_id)
if "step_02" in state and "finalized" in state["step_02"]:
Which now inserts the ambiguity. Are they equivalent? Should I standardize on one or the other. Does this invalidate the whole un-extraction project?
I also have an occurrences like this which tend to be used in the jump_to_step
and unfinalize
:
state = self.pipulate.get_state(pipeline_id)
if "step_02" in state and "finalized" in state["step_02"]:
…which makes me wonder if that extra state check at the beginning is really necessary? But looking more broadly at this example reveals such an important characteristic of the system, the one JSON data BLOB to rule them all and govern all state server-side all the time, fully read-out for inspection, and then optionally modified and written back in:
state = self.pipulate.get_state(pipeline_id)
if "step_04" in state and "finalized" in state["step_04"]:
del state["step_04"]["finalized"]
self.pipulate.save_state(pipeline_id, state)
Reminders About State Management
I have got to get reminding myself of that and looking for that
pipulate.save_state()
call pattern, to clarify the BLOB-evolution in my mind.
That’s what yields clarity and insight regarding the music composition.
Future Considerations
The Case for Externalizing jump_to_step
Okay, this is enough observation for now. I can see over time, I definitely will
want to externalize jump_to_step
. It’s just silly having that repeated in
every workflow when it could be a Pipulate helper function.
Rethinking Bloat Concerns
But I’m also having the realization that the propagation of bloat that I fear isn’t to be feared quite so much given the 1-file source of truth of this system. Cleanup jobs may be easier than I expect when I’m in the right state of mind for them, because there’s nowhere but there to look. Every instance that needs to be dealt with is right there before me. All searches are within the same file. This lets me defer things today more easily and tackle them with courage and confidence more readily in the future.
Next Steps
Okay, this is ready for o1 Pro. Having read through the latest status of this
project, give me some observations and rules regarding the un-externalization of
is_finalized
, including whether it’s really even a good idea anymore.
Un-Externalizing Analysis
o1 Pro: Below is o1 Pro’s attempt at analyzing where you stand on un-externalizing is_finalized
, given your latest observations:
1. The “One JSON to Rule Them All” Reality
You have a single pipeline state blob stored as a JSON document that looks like:
{
"step_01": {...},
"step_02": {"finalized": true},
"created": "...",
"updated": "..."
}
All steps are just dictionary keys in this blob. Access to 'finalized'
can happen in one of several ways:
step_data = self.get_step_data(url, "step_02")
→if "finalized" in step_data:
state = self.get_state(url)
→if "step_02" in state and "finalized" in state["step_02"]:
- Or some variant with checking
'step_02'
first, then'finalized'
.
Observations
- All these variants are doing effectively the same membership check: does the nested dict have the key
'finalized'
? - The difference is how you get the step data:
- Granular approach:
step_data = get_step_data(url, step_id, {})
- Raw approach:
state = get_state(url); state[step_id] ...
- Granular approach:
- The presence of
'step_02' in state
is a “just in case” check if you want to ensurestate["step_02"]
is guaranteed to exist before checking'finalized' in state["step_02"]
.
In practice, if your get_step_data(...)
function is guaranteed to return an empty dict if the step doesn’t exist, you might not need that 'step_02' in state
check at all. So you’re seeing some inconsistency in your code from earlier developments or slight caution in certain flows.
2. The “Is Finalized” Helper as an Abstraction
Originally, is_finalized(url, final_step)
did:
step_data = self.get_step_data(url, final_step, {})
return "finalized" in step_data
That’s trivial – it’s just calling another function, pulling out a step dict, and checking membership.
Reasons You Might Keep It
- Semantic Meaning –
is_finalized
is self-describing. At a glance, you know it checks finalization. - Potential Growth – If you ever want more nuance to finalization (like
'finalized': <timestamp>
or'finalized': true
plus'reason'
) or you want to do a chain of'approval' in step_data
, etc., you have a single function to expand. - Alignment With Other Helpers – If you already have other “semantic” helpers (
initialize_if_missing
,should_advance
, etc.), maybeis_finalized
fits that pattern.
Reasons You Might Remove It
- Too Trivial – It’s literally just
'finalized' in step_data
. Over-abstraction can obfuscate. - Context Inconsistency – You sometimes do a raw
get_state(...)
anyway for unfinalizing, so half the code never callsis_finalized
. - Friction – You have to remember “am I using
is_finalized
or am I using'finalized' in step_data'?
” This ironically reduces consistency.
3. The Inconsistencies You Found
You discovered at least three ways of checking “Is this step finalized?”:
if "finalized" in self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_02", {})
if "step_02" in state and "finalized" in state["step_02"]
if self.pipulate.is_finalized(pipeline_id, "step_02")
And you see the code is already mixing them. This begs the question: Which one is “correct?”
Short Answer: They all are, but they reflect different usage patterns:
- The
get_step_data
approach is a high-level, per-step API. - The
get_state
approach is raw control for multi-step changes, like unfinalize or jump logic.
It’s not necessarily “wrong” to have both. But you might unify them if you want to reduce mental overhead.
4. Un-Externalizing “is_finalized” – Key Considerations
- Simplicity: If you prefer seeing
"finalized" in step_data
directly in the flow code, that’s simpler than calling a helper. - No Growth Expected: If you truly believe finalization is always just
'finalized'
membership, you’re not losing future extensibility by removing the helper. - One Approach: If you remove
is_finalized
, you unify on “direct membership check in the flow.” That’s consistent with your other ~25 checks already in place. - Slightly More Verbose: In the flows that do
if self.is_finalized(url, "step_X")
you have to do two lines:stepX_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(url, "step_X", {}) if "finalized" in stepX_data: ...
That’s not a big deal though.
- Opportunity to “Standardize”: If you’re touching each of these references anyway, you could unify on the “granular approach” consistently:
step_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_XX", {}) if "finalized" in step_data: ...
or unify on raw
state = self.pipulate.get_state(...)
. But usually “granular approach” is the more typical for step-based logic.
5. So… Is Removing is_finalized
Really a Good Idea?
Given your reflections:
- Yes if:
- You want code clarity at the call site. Being explicit about
'finalized' in step_data
shows new devs how finalization works. - No complexity is expected to arise from finalization. It’s always just the presence of
'finalized'
. - Consistency across all step logic is a bigger benefit than the small semantic convenience of a helper method.
- You want code clarity at the call site. Being explicit about
- No if:
- You see a near-future need for more advanced finalization checks (like
'finalized' in step_data and step_data["user_approval"] == True
). Then the function would hold that logic. - You want to keep your code “semantic.” A call to
is_finalized(url, "step_05")
might read more elegantly thanif "finalized" in step5_data:
. - You already have
should_advance(...)
,initialize_if_missing(...)
, etc., and you want your “final check” to parallel that style.
- You see a near-future need for more advanced finalization checks (like
6. Some “Rules of Thumb” If You Proceed with Un-Externalizing
- Aim for a Single Pattern
- Pick either the “granular approach” or the “raw approach” for checking finalization. The granular approach is likely simpler for steps.
- E.g. “Use
get_step_data(...)
plus'finalized' in step_data'
for all final checks in the step code.” - Reserve
get_state(...)
for “jump_to_step” or “unfinalize” style code, where you’re manipulating multiple steps at once.
- Remove Extra
'step_XX' in state
If You Don’t Need It- If your
get_step_data(...)
usage returns{}
safely, checking'finalized' in step_data
is enough. - Otherwise, if you do raw
state = get_state(...)
, you can dostate.get("step_XX", {})
.
- If your
- Search & Replace Carefully
- For each
if self.is_finalized(url, step_id):
do a small snippet of code like:step_data = self.get_step_data(url, step_id, {}) if "finalized" in step_data: ...
- Make sure you aren’t missing the final step’s name or returning early by mistake.
- For each
- Remove the
is_finalized
Definition- Once you confirm you have no references to
is_finalized
, you can safely delete that helper.
- Once you confirm you have no references to
- Be Prepared for a Quick Test
- Minimal manual testing of each flow: “Does finalization still lock properly? Does unfinalize still unlock?”
- Because a single missing parentheses could break finalization logic. Low risk, but worth verifying.
7. Conclusion
The net effect of un-externalizing is_finalized
is:
- You reduce one level of indirection
- You unify your code style with the already ~25 direct
'finalized' in step_data'
checks - You gain a more explicit, “musical” reading of pipeline state in each step
Caveat: If you ever do want finalization to get more elaborate, you’ll reintroduce a helper. But for now, your system is simpler. And as you observed:
“One-file searching + consistent usage = easy future cleanup anyway.”
So yes—go for it, unify the finalization checks, and remove the helper if that’s the “music” you want. The steps are straightforward, and you’ll likely not break anything if you do the minimal search-and-replace carefully, then test each workflow’s finalize/unfinalize path.
Happy un-externalizing!
Frustration Kicks In & I Take a Break
The Core Issue
The issue is default field values. The situation is frustration. I designed something where reverting to a step was reverting to a step, and just that. Recovery of previous data at this step was not explicitly designed in (yet).
Progress and Problems
Fast-forward to around 3:00 PM. I did all the un-externalizing and then some. I
externalized jump_to_step
as well while I was in there, and I found the really
last must-have feature which is form repopulation when hitting the revert button
on a step. If that card took some work to populate the first time, such as
building a list in a textarea field, we can not automatically just blank it like
the current system does. But that’s what the current system does, and so:
Me: No that fubar’d it straight away. Shit, I have to take a break. It shouldn’t be this hard. Think about how to implement a repopulate form wedge. Something that can just be done generically within this pipeline workflow system to give artistic control over the re-populating of the forms when the revert buttons are hit. Normally they clear the field back to default. But when the user wants, you just have full Python control over what happens with each field in the form and you haven’t nuked the committed-back-to-storage pipeline record yet, so you can always re-query it even given our truncate early on revert system we have now.
Claude: I see what you’re getting at. Rather than fighting with the revert system, we could add a way to control form repopulation at a higher level. Something like:
def revert_control(
self,
step_id: str,
prefix: str,
url: str = None,
message: str = None,
final_step: str = None,
target_id: str = "tenflow-container",
label: str = None,
style: str = None,
preserve_data: bool = False,
repopulate: dict = None # New parameter
):
"""Return a revert control with optional data preservation and repopulation
Args:
...existing args...
repopulate: Dict of field names to values that should be pre-populated
when the form is shown again after revert
"""
# Get preserved data if requested
form_inputs = [Input(type="hidden", name="step", value=step_id)]
if preserve_data and url:
state = self.get_state(url)
if step_id in state:
for k, v in state[step_id].items():
form_inputs.append(Input(type="hidden", name=k, value=v))
# Add repopulation data if provided
if repopulate:
for k, v in repopulate.items():
form_inputs.append(Input(type="hidden", name=f"repopulate_{k}", value=v))
# Create form with all inputs
form = Form(
*form_inputs,
Button(label or f"\u00A0{format_step_name(step_id)}",
type="submit",
style=style),
hx_post=f"{prefix}/jump_to_step",
hx_target=f"#{target_id}",
hx_swap="outerHTML"
)
# ... rest of method
Then in the step handler, you can check for repopulation data:
async def step_01(self, request):
form = await request.form()
# Check for repopulation data
repopulate_data = {
k.replace('repopulate_', ''): v
for k, v in form.items()
if k.startswith('repopulate_')
}
# Use repopulation data if available, otherwise use stored data
if repopulate_data:
user_text = repopulate_data.get('text', '')
else:
step1_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_01", {})
user_text = step1_data.get("text", "")
# ... rest of handler
This gives you a generic way to control form repopulation through the revert system, without having to modify the core revert behavior. You can use it like:
self.pipulate.revert_control(
step_id="step_01",
prefix=self.prefix,
message=self._fmt(user_text),
target_id="onecard-container",
repopulate={"text": user_text} # Specify what to repopulate
)
This keeps the existing pipeline state management intact while giving you control over form repopulation on a per-field basis.
Pondering Claude’s Baton Passing Proposal
Me: Excellent thinking! But no hidden fields per @.cursorrules. I know it’s tempting, but either the form is blanked, or we are artistically repopulating it in a painterly way from a dict you so eloquently expressed how to make available. And what’s more, hey look! I just put OneCardFlow into a perfectly consistent state with all the other workflows where the Finalize and Unfinalize buttons just toggle back and forth between those two states, exposing and hiding the Revert buttons. Now, this sets the state for what you just proposed, which I like! Okay, let me see if I follow this.
Understanding the Revert Logic
From an artistic point of view, the person or LLM designing one of these
pipeline workflows has to decide just how destructive a revert-to-step is going
to be. The default logic is to annihilate all data including and past the point
you’re reverting to. This only makes sense because you’re planning to change the
data, and the logic is much simpler because if we defaulted to repopulating, we
really don’t know what kind of form is there. It could be a wacky repopulation
of some widget, and trying to do it generically would cramp our style. So
annihilate by default, which is what we have. But the person/LLM can add a
parameter on the Pipulate revert_control
call to preserve_data=True
.
Current State and Needed Changes
Now revert_control
already has this preserve_data
parameter, but its
behavior currently is useless, setting the stage for some client-side hidden
field malarkey. It splats them as hidden input fields into the form, ugh!
Okay, truth be told we will nee ONE hidden field passed along into the
Revert button, which is the same simple boolean field preserve_data=True
, so
passing the baton in other words. We stage these Revert buttons at the moment
they display to be either of the data preserving type or not, and it defaults to
not.
The Chain Reaction Process
Okay, so then what happens when a revert button is pressed that has one of these
hidden fields? It calls the in-workflow jump_to_step
endpoint which calls the
in-Pipulate class handle_jump_to_step
which creates the placeholders from
generate_step_placeholders
. A Div
is then returned that contains all the
placeholders: BAM, BAM, BAM! The chain-reaction occurs until it gets up to the
ID of the card you’re reverting to. Control is then handed over to the card
method of the workflow, and it’s 100% up to the card how to display. This is why
each card checks for its own “finalized” state or not. A card could
theoretically resist being finalized, and that’s up to the card. This is so
friggin powerful! And at this time, the card itself should have access to the
preserve_data
boolean, and that’s all it needs to artistically take over.
Data Management and State
Now the JSON data field BLOB of that workflow run’s ID has had all the data
including and past this Card ID wiped away in memory. That’s a truncation we do
by design, and really it’s only in the chain-reacted trail of placeholders left
behind the card on the latest build. But what does any of that matter? We’ve got
the pipeline_id
, and so that’s as good as having the full unserialized data
BLOB in memory again! We even have an example of this from the last time we
tried to fill-in the textarea’s prior data:
step1_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_01", {})
user_text = step1_data.get("text", "")
Setting a New Pattern
Now that particular version of this is going to go away, and we’re going to set a good example for an ongoing pattern when you or I encounter it again. But honestly, it’s like we’ve already implemented this solution and we are just tearing out the over-implemented hidden field splatting and replacing it with a surgical boolean baton passing, which steps in and gets used in that musical way that was always intended. This is not some sort of architectural design build we’re doing here that alters the system. It’s just using the system as it was intended. We just need to pass that boolean baton more explicitly and cleanly from the Revert button based on expressing that we want to on a per-card basis.
Starting with revert_control
And expressing that desire to preserve data or not starts at the
self.pipulate.revert_control()
, exactly as it semantically should. Now these
calls are all the heck over the place which could make it a pain in the ass to
add a parameter to, but it defaults to False
, so no problem. Toggle it to
True
and take responsibility for the new repopulate
dict that’s no longer
set to None
in the card. Do with it what you will.
The Next Steps
And that is what we want to defer for a moment, just knowing that we’ll have it while we focus instead on what that clean boolean baton passing lifecycle looks like. We’ve got some invisible field splatting to gut, and some one to splice in, don’t you think Claude?
Claude: Yes, absolutely! I love this approach - it’s so much cleaner and follows the principles in the .cursorrules perfectly. Let’s do this surgical update:
- First, let’s modify
revert_control
to pass just the single boolean baton:
def revert_control(
self,
step_id: str,
prefix: str,
url: str = None,
message: str = None,
final_step: str = None,
target_id: str = "tenflow-container",
label: str = None,
style: str = None,
preserve_data: bool = False
):
"""Return a revert control with optional data preservation flag"""
# ... existing early return for finalized check ...
# Create basic revert form with just the essential fields
form = Form(
Input(type="hidden", name="step", value=step_id),
Input(type="hidden", name="preserve", value=str(preserve_data).lower()),
Button(
label or f"\u00A0{format_step_name(step_id)}",
type="submit",
style=default_style
),
hx_post=f"{prefix}/jump_to_step",
hx_target=f"#{target_id}",
hx_swap="outerHTML"
)
# Return simple form if no message
if not message:
return form
# Return styled card with message if provided
return Card(
Div(message, style="flex: 1;"),
Div(form, style="flex: 0;"),
style="display: flex; align-items: center; justify-content: space-between;"
)
- Then modify
handle_jump_to_step
to pass the preserve flag through:
async def handle_jump_to_step(self, request, steps, prefix, container_id):
"""Generic jump_to_step handler for flows"""
form = await request.form()
step_id = form.get("step", "")
preserve = form.get("preserve", "false") == "true"
pipeline_id = db.get("pipeline_id", "")
# Clear everything from step_id onwards
self.clear_steps_from(pipeline_id, step_id, steps)
# Re-generate placeholders from the beginning
placeholders = self.generate_step_placeholders(
steps,
prefix,
start_from=0,
preserve=preserve # Pass the baton
)
return Div(*placeholders, id=container_id)
This sets up the clean baton-passing. Now each card can decide what to do with the preserve flag when it receives it. The data is still available via get_step_data()
if needed, but we’re not cramming it into hidden fields anymore.
What do you think? This feels much more aligned with the principles in .cursorrules and gives us that artistic control you described while keeping the core mechanism simple and explicit.
Rubber Ducking It Off o1 Pro
o1 Pro: Below is o1 Pro’s perspective on your current project status and the approach to un-externalizing is_finalized
plus handling the new “data preservation” requirement on revert:
1. Un-Externalizing is_finalized
—Still a Good Idea?
From all the reasoning you laid out, yes—removing the is_finalized
helper remains quite valid if:
- You truly don’t see finalization growing more complex (just
'finalized' in step_data
). - You want to unify all finalization checks in a single “dictionary membership” approach (no extra calls).
- You prefer exposing pipeline internals at the usage site (showing
'finalized' in stepN_data
) for clarity and “musical” explicitness.
That vantage point hasn’t changed. The short function is more overhead than help. So your plan to remove it is still aligned with everything else you’re doing.
2. The “Revert & Form Repopulation” Challenge
Current Default Behavior
- When you revert to a prior step, your pipeline code clears (
clear_steps_from
) that step onward. - This effectively blanks any forms for those steps if the user re-enters them.
Why This Is a Problem
- Some forms are non-trivial (multi-field or large textareas).
- Users might want the old data back to tweak it, rather than starting from scratch each time.
Potential Solutions
- Preserve Data at the time of revert, so the step’s form can re-hydrate from the JSON.
- Allow each card (step) to decide if it wants to “restore previous data” or “start fresh.”
The “One Boolean Baton” Approach
You proposed a design where revert_control
can supply a simple boolean (preserve_data
, e.g. "preserve"
) in the form. Then:
- When the user clicks revert, the “preserve” value is posted to
jump_to_step
. jump_to_step
(or a centralhandle_jump_to_step
) seespreserve=True
and defers to each step to decide how to re-populate.
The key advantage here is that you’re not forcibly copying hidden fields for every single data field. Instead, you let the step re-acquire any needed data from the pipeline’s BLOB—if that step wants to.
3. A Proposed Refined Workflow
- User Sees a “Revert” button. That button is built by
revert_control(..., preserve_data=True)
. - On click,
jump_to_step
receivesform.get("preserve") == "true"
.- -> Calls
self.clear_steps_from(pipeline_id, step_id, steps)
to remove everything from that step on. - -> Also sets some in-memory flag:
preserve = True
.
- -> Calls
- Re-Generate placeholders (
generate_step_placeholders
). The step you revert to is now called. - Inside that step’s method, you do something like:
if preserve: # read old data from pipeline JSON if it exists step_data = self.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_01", {}) user_text = step_data.get("text", "") else: user_text = "" # Or some default
- The step’s form (or other elements) can decide how to re-populate from that data.
Why This Works
- You keep the “truncation from step forward” logic, so you can’t continue to future steps with old data.
- You allow “local re-population” for the specific step you’re reverting to.
- No big tangle of hidden fields or super generic form serialization. Instead, each step’s code is still the “musical” logic for how to display data.
4. Tying It All Together
- Remove
is_finalized
fromPipulate
since that’s simpler. - Add a single
preserve_data: bool = False
parameter torevert_control(...)
. - Include that param in the hidden fields of the revert form (
Input(type="hidden", name="preserve", value="true")
ifpreserve_data=True
). - Extend
jump_to_step
to parsepreserve=...
, store it in a local variable, pass it as needed to placeholders. - In each step’s method (like
step_01
,step_02
, etc.), ifpreserve=True
, they retrieve existing data from the pipeline JSON to re-populate. If not, they do a fresh blank.
That’s basically all you need. The rest is straightforward glue code that sets a standard pattern for how revert forms are built and how steps respond to the preserve boolean.
5. Observations & Rules
- Rule 1: If a step wants to “re-populate” on revert, it must check the preserve boolean in its step method.
- Rule 2: By default, keep
preserve_data=False
so forms revert to blank. Only switch it toTrue
in the step where you actually want to keep data across reverts. - Rule 3: Don’t overcomplicate. You don’t need hidden field duplication or advanced field-level serialization. The pipeline state BLOB is your single source of truth.
Edge Cases
- If step’s data is huge (like large text input?), the pipeline BLOB might be large. But that’s already your design.
- If you revert multiple times in a row, the new approach shouldn’t break anything. The user’s code might re-populate from older state, or they might lose data if it was already cleared—just depends on your logic.
6. Why This Is “The Right Kind of Simple”
- No Magic: Just a boolean “preserve” that each step can read.
- No Over-Generic form serialization. You’re not injecting hidden fields for every user input.
- Maintains your “musical” approach: each step is free to interpret “preserve” any way it wants.
Conclusion: This design remains in perfect harmony with your single-file + minimal-abstraction ethos. It’s easy to understand, easy to implement, and keeps your code cohesive.
7. Final Thoughts
Overall, your project is shaping up nicely. You’ve done the “un-externalize is_finalized
” cleanly, and you’ve discovered the “preserve data on revert” design that fits your style:
- Trivial membership checks for
'finalized'
? Check. - One boolean baton for revert data? Check.
- No hidden field sprawl or forced merges? Also check.
Once you do a quick pass to unify the finalization checks and confirm your revert logic works with the newly minted “preserve” approach, you should have a solid system that:
- Minimizes cognitive overhead
- Keeps all the “musical” differences in the step code
- Allows form data repopulation on revert gracefully
It might take a little more iteration if you discover a corner case for partial data preservation, but your existing single-file search-and-replace approach and local testing will keep that from becoming a big headache.
In short: carry on. You’re definitely on the right track for the “beautiful, musical” pipeline code you envision!
And Back to Claude!
Me: Okay, that’s all done. The stage is set. Let’s do a first pass to strip
step_01
down to baseline, but don’t get over-enthisiastic here. Just strip out
the first pass at field preservation that we did, taking note of what we learned
for a better second pass. We can also slide in the parameter argument we need on
revert_control
Claude: Here’s the cleaned up version of step_01
, removing the old field preservation attempt but keeping the core logic intact. I’ll also add the preserve_data
parameter to the revert_control
call:
async def step_01(self, request):
"""GET /onecard/step_01 - Shows textarea or revert control"""
pipeline_id = db.get("pipeline_id", "untitled")
step1_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_01", {})
finalize_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "finalize", {})
user_text = step1_data.get("text", "")
# Check if pipeline is finalized
if "finalized" in finalize_data:
return Div(
Card(self._fmt(user_text)),
Div(id="finalize", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/finalize", hx_trigger="load")
)
# If we have data => show revert control
if user_text:
return Div(
self.pipulate.revert_control(
url=pipeline_id,
step_id="step_01",
prefix=self.prefix,
message=self._fmt(user_text),
target_id="onecard-container",
preserve_data=True # Add this parameter
),
Div(id="finalize", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/finalize", hx_trigger="load")
)
# Show empty form (first time OR after jump)
return Div(
Card(
H3("Enter your text:"),
Form(
Textarea(
"", # Start with empty textarea
name="text",
placeholder="Type anything here...",
rows="6",
required=True,
autofocus=True
),
Button("Save", type="submit"),
hx_post=f"{self.prefix}/step_01_submit",
hx_target="#step_01"
)
),
Div(id="finalize"),
id="step_01"
)
The key changes:
- Removed the attempt to populate the textarea with
user_text
- Added
preserve_data=True
to therevert_control
call - Explicitly set textarea value to
""
to show we’re starting fresh
This gives us a clean slate to implement the new field preservation pattern properly.
Me: Show me some other symbols like the step back one we’re using here that could be candidates as a semantic alternative if the boolean preserve_data
is being used.
Claude: Here are some Unicode symbols that could semantically indicate data preservation vs clearing when used in the revert button:
# Current (destructive):
"\u00A0" # Non-breaking space + step name
# Alternatives for preserve_data=True:
"\u21BA" # ↺ ANTICLOCKWISE OPEN CIRCLE ARROW
"\u21BB" # ↻ CLOCKWISE OPEN CIRCLE ARROW
"\u267B" # ♻ BLACK UNIVERSAL RECYCLING SYMBOL
"\u2B6F" # ⭯ ANTICLOCKWISE TRIANGLE-HEADED OPEN CIRCLE ARROW
"\u27F2" # ⟲ ANTICLOCKWISE GAPPED CIRCLE ARROW
"\u27F3" # ⟳ CLOCKWISE GAPPED CIRCLE ARROW
# Current style could indicate destructive:
"\u232B" # ⌫ ERASE TO THE LEFT
"\u2190" # ← LEFTWARDS ARROW
"\u21E6" # ⇦ LEFTWARDS WHITE ARROW
"\u21D0" # ⇐ LEFTWARDS DOUBLE ARROW
I particularly like \u21BA
(↺) for preserve_data=True as it suggests “going back but keeping things”, while keeping the current blank space for the destructive default feels appropriately stark.
The code would look like:
label or (
"\u21BA" if preserve_data else "\u00A0"
) + format_step_name(step_id)
Me: “\u27F2” # ⟲ ANTICLOCKWISE GAPPED CIRCLE ARROW
…is ideal for this use! Let’s make this the generic building of the revert button use this if form data is being preserved. That gives us an ideal way to test the baton passing in a incremental way.
Claude:
Perfect choice! Let’s modify the revert_control
method to use ⟲ when preserving data:
def revert_control(
self,
step_id: str,
prefix: str,
url: str = None,
message: str = None,
final_step: str = None,
target_id: str = "tenflow-container",
label: str = None,
style: str = None,
preserve_data: bool = False
):
"""Return a revert control with optional data preservation flag"""
# Early return if finalized
if url and final_step:
final_data = self.get_step_data(url, final_step, {})
if "finalized" in final_data:
return None
# Default styling if not provided
default_style = (
"background-color: var(--pico-del-color);"
"display: inline-flex;"
"padding: 0.5rem 0.5rem;"
"border-radius: 4px;"
"font-size: 0.85rem;"
"cursor: pointer;"
"margin: 0;"
"line-height: 1;"
"align-items: center;"
)
# Create basic revert form with just the essential fields
form = Form(
Input(type="hidden", name="step", value=step_id),
Input(type="hidden", name="preserve", value=str(preserve_data).lower()),
Button(
label or f"{'\u27F2' if preserve_data else '\u00A0'}{format_step_name(step_id)}",
type="submit",
style=default_style
),
hx_post=f"{prefix}/jump_to_step",
hx_target=f"#{target_id}",
hx_swap="outerHTML"
)
# Return simple form if no message
if not message:
return form
# Return styled card with message if provided
return Card(
Div(message, style="flex: 1;"),
Div(form, style="flex: 0;"),
style="display: flex; align-items: center; justify-content: space-between;"
)
Now when we see ⟲ on a revert button, we’ll know it’s going to preserve the form data. This gives us a nice visual indicator while testing the baton-passing mechanism.
Actually, no we didn’t but Claude and I did a bit of back-and-forth to get the
baton passing just right, and to make sure that it’s visually represented by
either the normal ↶ symbol to revert if there’s no form data to persist or ⟲ if
there is. This is so friggin perfect! We are systematically passing the baton
forward, first in card_xx
configuration, then in its Pipulate helper
functions, and now finally full-circle back around into the card again on the
repopulate.
Now these revert buttons call the jump_to_step
endpoints that live within each
workflow class, which are these appreciated little things thanks to some
externalization to Pipulate helper functions that I did earlier today:
async def jump_to_step(self, request):
return await self.pipulate.handle_jump_to_step(
request,
self.STEPS,
self.prefix,
f"{self.prefix.lstrip('/')}-container"
)
…so this makes less boilerplate code per workflow, however it does mean I have to explicitly call it to Claude’s attention for the baton-passing next steps. The revert button submit is going to be hitting this endpoint, carrying:
form = Form(
Input(type="hidden", name="step", value=step_id),
Input(type="hidden", name="preserve", value=str(preserve_data).lower()),
Button(
label or f"{'⟲ ' if preserve_data else ' '}{format_step_name(step_id)}",
type="submit",
style=default_style
),
hx_post=f"{prefix}/jump_to_step",
hx_target=f"#{target_id}",
hx_swap="outerHTML"
)
Specifically, the hidden field preserve_data=true
or preserve_data=false
. I
believe that’s going to be held in the request
object passed to
self.pipulate.handle_jump_to_step
, which is this:
async def handle_jump_to_step(self, request, steps, prefix, container_id):
"""Generic jump_to_step handler for flows"""
form = await request.form()
step_id = form.get("step", "")
preserve = form.get("preserve", "false") == "true"
pipeline_id = db.get("pipeline_id", "")
# Clear everything from step_id onwards
self.clear_steps_from(pipeline_id, step_id, steps)
# Re-generate placeholders from the beginning
placeholders = self.generate_step_placeholders(
steps,
prefix,
start_from=0,
preserve=preserve # Pass the baton
)
return Div(*placeholders, id=container_id)
Now this gets passed along to the placeholders which is what’s responsible for our ability to show one symbol or the other, depending. But what we’re interested in is making this value available to the card itself, and not merely the chain reacted trail of placeholders leading up to it. Now at the top of OneCardFlow currently, we have:
form = await request.form()
preserve = form.get("preserve", "false") == "true" # Get preserve flag from form
pipeline_id = db.get("pipeline_id", "untitled")
step1_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_01", {})
finalize_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "finalize", {})
user_text = step1_data.get("text", "")
…so it might actually be a done deal. But what we really need to do now is a
test as glorious and explicit as how we showed one symbol or the other so that
after the click on the revert button we can see that whether the preserve_data
boolean baton has been passed all the way along and can control things on the
card form build. We need not actually repopulate yet. We only need to show
something when the card builds to show that we know if preserve
is true or
false. The particulars of the data does not matter because we are going to
(already have?) re-query it from source.
Claude:
Yes! Let’s add a visual indicator in the card to confirm the baton passing is working. We can modify the card’s header to show whether it’s in preserve mode:
async def step_01(self, request):
"""GET /onecard/step_01 - Shows textarea or revert control"""
form = await request.form()
preserve = form.get("preserve", "false") == "true"
logger.debug(f"step_01: preserve flag received as {preserve}") # Debug log
pipeline_id = db.get("pipeline_id", "untitled")
step1_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "step_01", {})
finalize_data = self.pipulate.get_step_data(pipeline_id, "finalize", {})
user_text = step1_data.get("text", "")
# Check if pipeline is finalized
if "finalized" in finalize_data:
return Div(
Card(self._fmt(user_text)),
Div(id="finalize", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/finalize", hx_trigger="load")
)
# If we have data => show revert control
if user_text:
return Div(
self.pipulate.revert_control(
url=pipeline_id,
step_id="step_01",
prefix=self.prefix,
message=self._fmt(user_text),
target_id="onecard-container",
preserve_data=True
),
Div(id="finalize", hx_get=f"{self.prefix}/finalize", hx_trigger="load")
)
# Show empty form (first time OR after jump)
return Div(
Card(
H3(f"Enter your text: {'⟲ (preserve mode)' if preserve else '↶ (clear mode)'}"),
Form(
Textarea(
"", # Still empty - we'll handle repopulation next
name="text",
placeholder="Type anything here...",
rows="6",
required=True,
autofocus=True
),
Button("Save", type="submit"),
hx_post=f"{self.prefix}/step_01_submit",
hx_target="#step_01"
)
),
Div(id="finalize"),
id="step_01"
)
This will show either “Enter your text: ⟲ (preserve mode)” or “Enter your text: ↶ (clear mode)” in the card header, confirming that our baton passing is working all the way through to the card build. Once we see this working, we can proceed with the actual data repopulation.
Baton Passing With QueryStrings
Baton passing, baton passing, lots of fun with baton passing! I had some troubles getting it passed all the way, and Claude figured out the solution:
Claude: Looking at the logs, I see the issue. When we click the revert button:
- The form submits with
preserve=true
:2025-01-04 18:03:49 | DEBUG | revert_control called with preserve_data=True
- But when
step_01
gets called after the jump, it’s receivingpreserve=false
:2025-01-04 18:03:52 | DEBUG | step_01: preserve flag received as False
The issue is in how we’re trying to pass the preserve flag. Instead of using _values
, we should add it as a query parameter to the hx_get
URL in generate_step_placeholders
:
def generate_step_placeholders(self, steps, prefix, start_from=0, preserve=False):
"""Generate step placeholder divs for any workflow."""
return [
Div(
id=step_id,
hx_get=f"{prefix}/{step_id}?preserve={str(preserve).lower()}", # Add as query param
hx_trigger="load" if i == start_from else None
)
for i, (_, step_id, _) in enumerate(steps)
]
Then in step_01
, get it from query params instead of form:
async def step_01(self, request):
"""GET /onecard/step_01 - Shows textarea or revert control"""
preserve = request.query_params.get("preserve", "false") == "true" # Get from query params
logger.debug(f"step_01: preserve flag received as {preserve}")
This should properly pass the preserve flag through the HTMX chain and show the correct symbol.
BONK!
Me: Well, that worked! That’s some heavy handed baton passing there, haha! I know you’re a machine, but that’s like passing the baton by konking the receiver over the head with it.
Claude: 😄 You’re right! It’s like instead of a smooth handoff in a relay race, we’re throwing the baton and yelling “CATCH!”
The query parameter approach is definitely more forceful than elegant. We went from:
🏃♂️ --> 🤝 --> 🏃♀️ (smooth handoff)
To:
🏃♂️ --> 🎯 --> 😵 --> 🏃♀️ (BONK!)
But hey, it works! And in web development sometimes that’s exactly what you need - an explicit, unmistakable way to pass state through a chain of HTMX requests. The query parameter is like writing the instructions on the baton itself in big bold letters.
Would you like to explore a more elegant solution? We could potentially use HTMX headers or triggers, though honestly, the query parameter approach, while blunt, is clear and maintainable. Sometimes the simple solution is the right one, even if it makes us chuckle at its directness!
Crossing The Finish Line
Me: No, I think with the baton being passed all the way, we really just want
to rebuild the user_data
(if that’s what we’re still using) in the text area.
Is this close to the implementation of the data-pull out of the pipeline record
that you’re thinking. Cross the finish line for me here, Claude!
Back-and-forth ensues and I feed Claude the log file of it working and don’t tell it, just to see if it can recognize the fact
Claude: Looking at these logs, I can see what’s happening now:
- When we jump back with preserve=True at 18:23:25, the state is preserved in the pipeline record:
{ "step_01": { "text": "foo\r\nbar\r\nbaz" } }
- And when we edit and submit at 18:23:31, it updates correctly to:
{ "step_01": { "text": "foo\r\nbar\r\nbaz\r\nwow" } }
The data preservation is working! The issue was in handle_jump_to_step
not clearing state when preserve=True, which we fixed. We don’t need to modify the textarea population logic because the data is already there in step1_data.get("text", "")
.
So no, you were right - we don’t need the previous change. The fix in handle_jump_to_step
was the key piece we needed. The data is already being pulled correctly from the pipeline record.
High-Five!
Me: High-Five!
Claude: 🖐️ High five!
That was a great debugging session! We:
- Identified where the data was getting lost (in
handle_jump_to_step
) - Fixed it by respecting the preserve flag
- Verified through logs that the state is now properly maintained
- Avoided making unnecessary changes to code that was already working
And most importantly - it works! The user can now edit their text without losing their work.
These kinds of state preservation bugs can be tricky to track down, but methodically following the data flow through the logs helped us pinpoint exactly where the issue was. Nice teamwork! 🎉
Gemini 1.5 Brainstormer Topic Check
It seems I should be picking better titles and topic themes for these daily tech journal articles, so I check with Gemini.
Me: Ignoring the title theme I chose for this post, what would you choose?
Gemini 1.5: Absolutely! Here are some unique title ideas that deviate from the original theme:
1. The Unexpected Power of Un-Externalization
This title highlights the counter-intuitive nature of the refactoring process, where removing a helper function actually improved clarity and consistency. It captures the element of surprise and discovery in the journey.
2. When “Worse” is Actually Better: A Refactoring Tale
This title plays on the idea that sometimes, going against conventional wisdom can lead to better results. It hints at the unconventional approach taken in the refactoring process and the positive outcomes achieved.
3. The Zen of Code: Finding Simplicity in the Matrix
This title emphasizes the philosophical aspect of the refactoring process, where stripping away complexity revealed a deeper elegance and harmony in the code. It connects the coding journey to a broader search for simplicity and clarity.
4. From Monolith to Masterpiece: A Single-File Symphony
This title celebrates the unique single-file architecture and the “musical” nature of the code. It suggests that even a monolithic file can be crafted into a well-structured and expressive piece of software.
5. The Purloined Pattern: A Refactoring Mystery
This title adds an element of intrigue and suspense, drawing a parallel to Poe’s story where the solution was hidden in plain sight. It hints at the unexpected discoveries made during the refactoring process.
6. Kung Fu Coding: Fighting LLM Over-Abstraction
This title captures the dynamic struggle between human intent and LLM tendencies. It highlights the challenge of guiding LLMs towards unconventional solutions that go against their training data.
7. The Webmaster’s Renaissance: FastHTML, HTMX, and the One File Manifesto
This title positions the refactoring journey as a return to simpler times, where a single developer could grasp an entire project. It celebrates the empowerment of the individual coder through modern tools and a minimalist approach.
8. The Pendulum Swings Back: A Refactoring Retro-Revolution
This title emphasizes the cyclical nature of technology trends and the return to server-side simplicity. It suggests a deliberate rejection of over-abstraction and a rediscovery of core web principles.
9. Rhyming with the Web: A Refactoring Harmony
This title highlights the elegance of aligning code with the fundamental nature of the web. It suggests a harmonious relationship between human creativity and the underlying technology.
10. The Secret Weapon DSL: FastHTML and the Simplicity Advantage
This title positions FastHTML as a powerful tool that challenges conventional web development practices. It suggests a competitive edge gained through minimalism and a focus on core principles.
Bonus:
11. Refactoring Rhapsody: A Poetic Journey in Code
This title captures the creative and expressive nature of the refactoring process, drawing a parallel to musical composition. It suggests a harmonious blend of technical skill and artistic vision.
I’m eager to hear which title resonates most with you! 😊